Author Topic: Ban Appeal  (Read 145 times)

lonelentil

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Ban Appeal
« on: August 11, 2018, 09:53:45 pm »
I have to say this is a complete surprise, I did not receive any warning. I even asked hazy to let me know if I was out of line because it was hard to tell with all the teasing, joking, and banter that goes on on this server. You are taking things out of context and demonizing me. The "f--- black people,' while an awful, distasteful joke, was about people with black-colored names because they are hard to read in game. You can even see that's what we were talking about in chat in the screen shot. If that was so egregious, why was I not given or warning or ban right then and there? I apologize if I offended anyone. You say "only went back on it after you saw peoples reaction to what you said," is that not the normal thing to do when you think you may have offened someone? Apologize? Would it not be worse if I hadn't shown remorse?

Quote
In voice chat he asked another minor for her Facebook and when she said no, he then asked her for her snapchat..
This is completely untrue, I did not ask her for her facebook or snap chat information. I jokingly warned her against telling people her real name on the internet, and when she said it wasn't an issue, I facetiously said she won't think so when I add her on Facebook tomorrow. Seriously had no intention of actually doing so, and absolutely did not ask her for that information. I also was not aware the she was a minor, it's not like people go around giving that information out without being asked. This took place while we were playing cards against humanity,"the game for horrible people" which is typically for 18+, and people kept filling in their blanks with the name "Emily", I asked who that is because I was out of the loop, and when she spoke up I made the joke about not giving personal information out online. To Emily/Endallia, I'm sorry you misunderstood what I was getting at and I apologize for making you feel uncomfortable, it was not my intention.

I did not realize I was making people uncomfortable, as far as I am aware nobody tried to make that clear to me. Honestly with all the things that go on in VC and with all the crude sexist signs in game about certain people I did not think anything I was doing was out of line because it appeared that that kind of thing was tolerated. Had anyone, the people in question or the mods, told me I was making someone feel uncomfortable or that my behavior was inappropriate for the server I would have made my best attempt to correct it. When I first joined I was taken aback by the amount of offensive, derogatory, sexist things being said in VC. I even made a fuss about how people were treating Torza in particular but I was told that was normal and she liked the attention. All it would have taken was something like "Stop you are making me/them actually feel very uncomfortable and it's not okay" and I would have changed my behavior. Which I'll admit TeePain said something of the sort, aimed at multiple people, while some of us where joking about gay sex in VC and it was spilling over into chat, but I was assured by other players in VC that he was just over-reacting and our jokes were fine.

I think this comes down to a lack of moderation of the VC. I will not deny that I am bit of an awkward, sometimes immature, weirdo, who plays Minecraft that isn't? I am someone who has always been a "class clown" type and has a habit of sticking his foot in his mouth for the attention, acceptance, and lols. With all the crude, offensive, and borderline abusive things I witnessed take place in VC and sometimes in game, I didn't think anything I was saying/doing was out of line. An atmosphere of crude, immature, humor and "banter" was set and I was just trying to fit in. I really don't understand, I was invited to play Cards Against Humanity which is a horribly offensive game, where topics like pedophilia, sexuality, and racism are humorized, yet I make jokes about those subjects and it's not ok? And as I said I even attempted to reach out to a mod about it. I am sure there are at least a few people that would vouch for me trying to be a friendly, community driven player. Ultimately though I think it is extremely unfair to perma-ban me without any sort of warning(that I was aware of), especially considering the first offence you mention took place a few days ago. You guys just let me dig my hole deeper without me even being aware of it. I hope that you can find it in your heart to give me a second chance and if you do I you'll see my behavior will be very different and I will probably stay out of VC entirely. I came here to build and be part of this awesome community but got caught up in trying to fit in with all the immature humor and "edgyness" and apparently failed horribly. I am sure 8JB could dig up more things I said and take them out of context and I will address them if so.

Regardless of the decision about this appeal, I would like to extended my deepest apologizes to anyone who I made feel uncomfortable. I was not trying to do so nor did I know that I was doing so. It is regrettable I was misunderstood and that it afflicted you so harshly.

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Torza

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Re: Ban Appeal
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2018, 11:27:39 pm »
They shouldn’t have to let you know that making jokes about pedophillia and racism jokes aren’t alright.

I can take the jokes people make about me. I can handle them. I don’t let them do it because “I like attention” (I was online when this was said AND I explained that it wasn’t true so stop using that as a excuse now). I let them do it because the ones who actually do it now are people I’ve known for months and consider friends. You, however, have recently joined. And in saying that I was made to feel uncomfortable and in a way sexualised when I definitely shouldn’t have been. I play minecraft for fun, not to be afraid in a way to log on or join the vc like I felt after your comments. You knew I was underage and still said it. If someone is making me uncomfortable that absolute last thing I want to do if I barely know them is tell them that.

8JB didn’t take this out of context. I was also online when the racism jokes were made. It took you over 20 seconds to correct your “joke”. As someone who was online and actually watched it unfold I 100% don’t believe that it was a joke. Jokes like at are corrected MUCH faster in case it actually offends anyone. And honestly you showing “remorse” was because people were clearly upset by the comment.

Cards against humanity is a whole other thing. You cannot use it to defend yourself in this. It is played by SO many people who would never ever everrrr say those things to another human. Yet you did. You said some of those things before you’d even played it.
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Endallia

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Re: Ban Appeal
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2018, 11:53:03 pm »
Well, my name is Emma not Emily.

The jokes you say are a regularity on the server I fail to recognize. The community on DSSR is very friendly with occasional jokes shared between friends (which never amount to racism or pedophilia jokes). While in CAH, I realized your first comment about 'finding my Facebook' was a joke and I took it as such. However, you asked again if i had snapchat which, to me, did not make your comment a joke anymore. Pushing by asking again for my personal account details made me feel very uncomfortable considering the comments you had made previously about other minors. Whether it was a joke or not, I feel like you fail to recognize the severity of some of your comments considering the internet is generally a harsher environment for females. A comment, whether a joke or not, about finding a minor's information or wanting to pursue a minor are not jokes that are appropriate in this community.

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8JB

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Re: Ban Appeal
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 12:40:21 am »
Firstly we would like to thank you for your appeal, we appreciate the time it took you to write this out and the thought that went into it. Despite this, your ban will not be overturned, here's why;

The 'banter, teasing and jokes' is usually done when you know a person not when you're trying to fit in, being edgy and saying'**** black people' whatever the context isn't exactly a good way to "fit in". this newly found 'banter' has very much originated from the new found popularity of the voice chat. Before the influx of late-July players, the voice chat was never anywhere near this active, so the vast majority of people in the voice-chat, are usually newer players. This popularity has lead to an increase in behaviour us as mods are not quite used to seeing on this server, we let it slide for a couple days but we feel like we needed to address it and have done so by warning both Its_Skinny and SergioRBuge of their behaviour when it came to Sergio saying the word "knickers" in voice-chat, with Skinny egging him on and I think we all know what they were insinuating. So to get back to your point, this 'banter' isn't what this server is about,being racist and insinuating racism we do not consider that to be 'banter or jokes'. You as a 29 year old man should know that of all people, you should know that making a racist joke isn't a way to try to "fit in" to a community however "awkward and weird" you claim us and you to be. I find it ridiculous that you think that sort of behaviour is any way acceptable and its hilarious that you think you need be told that racism is not ok, surely you would know that if you had read the rules or even had any common sense?

You say that you understand it was "an awful, distasteful joke" but then just before that you say "I even asked hazy to let me know if I was out of line because it was hard to tell with all the teasing, joking, and banter that goes on on this server.", does this not contradict the "awful, distasteful joke" part? You say you didn't know whether you were out of line making those sort of jokes on the server, but then that it was an awful thing to say, why exactly do you need someone to tell you that racism isn't ok? It doesn't matter how you phrased the "joke", everyone can see what you were getting at. I purposely included you saying it was to the black-named players on the server as to provide context, but it still doesn't make it an 'ok' thing to say.

Next we go on to last night's voice chat, you asked Endallia why she provided her name on the internet as strangers could find her Facebook, you then asked her if she had Facebook to which she bluntly replied "No.", at this point in the conversation it was only you two talking and anyone with a brain could feel the awkward tension in the voice chat after that conversation. But still you persisted, you then said "Snapchat?", why exactly would you be asking these questions unless you wanted to add her on them? You claim that I'm trying to twist things but do you not have common sense and understand what certain things sound like. At that point in time it appears that you as a 29 year old man are asking a 17 year old girl for her social media information. She once again replied bluntly "No.", you then stopped and re-muted your mic. Not only is this very weird, she also said it made her feel pretty uncomfortable, you would've thought after what you said about Torza in discord and not getting any positive replies you would have realised this type of 'creepy' behaviour wasn't acceptable or received well. Torza also said as seen in your ban post that your behaviour made her feel uncomfortable and she also said to Hazy that even playing on the same server as you made her feel uncomfortable because of the things you said, if this doesn't show you just how bad what you said was then I don't know what does. This is not how you try to fit into a community.

Your point about Cards against Humanity being 18+ is complete bullshit and you know it, the drinking age in England is 18, does that mean people don't drink before the age of 18? Of course it doesn't, you know this, you also know that the minimum age to join the server is 16, so the fact that you try to use this as any form of excuse is ridiculous. In this whole post you fail to address anything that you said when it came to what you said to Torza, I'm not sure why that is.

Now lets go on to your point about voice chat. "When I first joined I was taken aback by the amount of offensive, derogatory, sexist things being said in VC", these people you are with in voice chat are a new type of group, by this new 'group' I mean the players that joined in late-July/early August. In July we had the most amount of new players we've ever had as well as the most amount of people we've ever had on at one time etc, with this large influx of people it is bound to create new groups. The main new group of players is the ones that are frequently in voice-chat. This is not to say all these people have specifically done something wrong, but I assume they are the people you are talking about saying these "offensive" things. As the mods we are not used to this, and if as you say you were taken aback "by the amount of offensive, derogatory, sexist things being said in VC", then it was most probably some of these players no? While if what you said is true and not an exaggeration/lie like some other things you have mentioned then it is obviously not ok or acceptable. Had any of these type of things been complained about to mods, then there would have been action, but thus far we have not received a direct complaint from someone about what you have mentioned.

Furthermore you say that this issue could be tackled by moderation in voice chat, which while it may seem like a good point, voice chat should not need moderation. The players Sergio and Its_Skinny have both been warned for insinuating racism when it came to Skinny asking Sergio to say "knickers" in voice chat, no one else has been warned because in chat Sergio only mentioned Skinny's name. The point is that voice chat shouldn't have to be moderated, this is a whitelist server for a reason, there has to be a sense of trust within the community as the mods cannot monitor every single thing a player does on voice chat or on the minecraft server. The main point here is, the people saying these comments, are new to the community like you were. This ban will show that behaviour like that is not acceptable, but that's something they should also know when joining the server. Not to mention the numerous warnings me and Hazy have put in chat about the use of the word "N***a" and words sounding like it in voice chat.

You end it off with you saying "All it would have taken was something like "Stop you are making me/them actually feel very uncomfortable and it's not okay" and I would have changed my behaviour. Which I'll admit TeePain said something of the sort, aimed at multiple people, while some of us where joking about gay sex in VC and it was spilling over into chat, but I was assured by other players in VC that he was just over-reacting and our jokes were fine.", why on earth would you ask the same people saying, in your words "offensive, derogatory, sexist things", if saying those exact things were ok? Surely if you were really THAT concerned about the behaviour in voice chat you would have notified one of the moderators about it or at least asked one of the moderators if saying that was acceptable. You continue to make redundant points which only show you trying to worm your way out of a hole.

"I will not deny that I am bit of an awkward, sometimes immature, weirdo, who plays Minecraft that isn't? I am someone who has always been a "class clown" type and has a habit of sticking his foot in his mouth for the attention, acceptance, and lols." - This is not relevant to anything and doesn't excuse any part of your behaviour.

Here you do a very good job of making yourself look like a victim in this situation: "I really don't understand, I was invited to play Cards Against Humanity which is a horribly offensive game, where topics like pedophilia, sexuality, and racism are humorized, yet I make jokes about those subjects and it's not ok? And as I said I even attempted to reach out to a mod about it. I am sure there are at least a few people that would vouch for me trying to be a friendly, community driven player. Ultimately though I think it is extremely unfair to perma-ban me without any sort of warning(that I was aware of), especially considering the first offence you mention took place a few days ago.". I address all these points above.

I'm not saying you're a horrible person, that you're not friendly or a community driven player. But there are three separate incidents in which you have come across very badly, to the point where you are making other players on the server feel uncomfortable even being on the server at the same time as you, maybe that would tell you that you're not exactly the super friendly guy you claim to be. Not to mention how being 29, you should be much more mature in this way, and instead of being saying something offensive because apparently 'everyone else was', you should have known much better given your age. You can try to argue that you were "trying to fit in" but believe it or not, being racist isn't exactly a good way to fit into this community. Anyone that's been on this server for longer than 2 months can tell you that is not the way people usually act on this server.

I (8JB) really don't like the way you've tried to make me appear in your appeal, as if in your ban reasons I was taking anything you said or did out of context, you say the ban is unfair as if you got banned for a single thing but as you can see that is obviously not the case. While you should have got a warning for your racist joke, the way you talked to minors pushed it over the line. I have tried to be as clear as possible in this response but if you have any more questions feel free to ask.

I would once again like to reiterate that this ban is permanent and after the mods looked at your appeal, we decided together that you will not be unbanned.

Good luck in the future.

-The Mods
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 03:13:05 am by 8JB »
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